Very well put. And the fact that TMZ calls the video “horrifying” whilst they camp out waiting for peoples dead bodies to be shown makes them most insincere.

I still think it’s cruel and sick. There are people that disagree with KFC AND everyone else who mistreat and torture defenseless animals. Just because we do some screwed up things in America doesn’t make what happens in the Dominican Republic any less replusing. So glad he’s not playing for the Sox anymore - NY can have him.

These sorts of things make my head hurt. Culture, animal biology (they would have fought eachother “in the wild”), I find birds gross, bullfighting, use the animal, JUST SAY NO TO GENITAL MUTILATION. So, yeah, I can’t stay on track, here, I keep falling down the slippery slope, as it were. Maybe we should just ask Ted Nugent?

A bit hysterical, don’t you think?
Yes, we eat chickens and pigs and cows. But not for the fun of watching them die. Cockfighting serves no purpose other than the entertainment of watching the carnage as animals are forced to rip one another to pieces.
Cultural Diversity is not a get-out-of-jail-free card that permits any and all behavior to get a pass just because “that’s what we do”. One could justify wife-beating and adulterous-daughter-stoning on precisely the same grounds.
PETA is an organization of creeps who relish watching and propagating snuff-porn videos of animals being tortured, and are no better than the cockfighters.

Really, the bad thing about cockfighting and dog fighting isn’t so much what it does to the animals as what it does to the people involved. It is a cause and a symptom of moral degeneracy.

Americans get upset watching Dominicans fight roosters because its inhumane but say nothing about how they treat Haitians working in the can fields.

I am going to call “bogus” on Cord for the No.6 (with cheese). Not the original post - I haven’t thought enough about the issue and it make my head hurt, NO GENITAL MUTILATION.

Anyhow, two things. 1) I don’t believe that you think “killing is killing.” Or are you just limiting it to the arena of killing animals? 2) sentient animals choosing to fight for personal gain is pretty different that non-sentient (debatable I know, but bear with me) animals being forced to act on biological imperitives for other’s gain. Not that it makes your original post moot - just, you know, “bogus!” on that point. Plus one is totally a square shape and the other is an octogon - how much more different can you get?

Beachy: PETA consistently places animal rights above human rights. But that is their gig(I guess it would be weird if they were all about animal rights, and only talked about humans?) - what kills me is that they don’t usually take humans into consideration when picking their cause.

Killing is not killing, no matter how it is done. There are humane ways to kill animals, and throwing 2 animals in the ring to maim each other for the sake of human entertainment is a little different than some (not all by any means) of the methods used to kill animals for food. I will be happy when animals are raised in a healthy environment, with fresh air, open spaces, no hormones, nutritious food,and then slaughtered in the least traumatic method possible.

Also, just because some things are accepted in other cultures, does not mean that those things are acceptable in our countries. Misogyny, GENITAL MUTILATION, stoning to death of a woman who has been raped, animal fighting, etc., etc. should not be acceptable anywhere, but while I absolutely agree that other cultures should not be forced to relinquish their rights to many traditions, if it is of a harmful nature, I don’t think those customs should be allowed.

Also, really bad sentence structure but it’s Friday, so I’m going to let it slide for now.

Esq - yeah, but what if it’s in another country, as this was? in our country, we make the rules - ok, sure. but why do we get to make the rules for other countries, then get pissed when other people criticize our traditions and call us cultural imperialists? if we’re going to be cultural imperialists, i don’t see why we shouldn’t own up to it (besides PR disaster, i mean).

I’m tire so I’m just going to ditto everything esquared said. I don’t think we as a country have the right to change anybody’s customs. But as a human I don’t think you should just accept the mutilation or rape of women because it’s ok and part of the culture.

And now I really want a yummy chicken sandwich. Killing animal for sports=sick. Killing animals for sustenance= survival. Some humans need to eat meat to live. Not everyone is willing to live on veggies, legumes, beans, and wheat. Why not picket the damn lions? Give them so Pamela Lee lettuce and I’m sure they’ll be happy. I like to eat meat but I don’t think it’s ok to kill them for fun, sport, or fashion. I can separate these things.

RCDC- Oh, sorry, I thought this was a Dominican celebration in the US, not in the Republic. I still think cockfighting is wrong, no matter where it takes place, but I also don’t think that Martinez should be humiliated of this took place in his country.

Juju-Yes, exactly. I eat chicken, turkey, and fish. I tried to give up all meat, but my body craves protein and I am too lazy/busy/picky to eat a varied enough diet to be healthy without some meat. I would love to be a vegetarian because of my personal beliefs, but as you said, it’s not for everyone. In the meantime, I support legitimate organizations (like the World Wildlife Fund), try not to buy leather and other animal-based products, and love my cats even when they don’t use their litter boxes.

I’m sure if I looked into supplements it might be doable. But the few times I tried it I got really sick and turned into a total bitch. Ok, I was bitchier than my normal bitch self. I kept getting dizzy and nauseous. I decided it probably was not a lifestyle I could maintain.

I don’t have a problem with meat or hunting. Purposefully making an animal suffer is another thing all together - you know like torturing it, or anything on Animal Precinct. All I am saying is, why did my DNA give me fangs if I am not supposed to eat meat?

Hey, it’s cultural.>

Let’s try again: this is the cultural bit.

SCREW IT!
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/.....topstories

BC: I hate it when the internets gets all rebellious and shit.

I’m just trying to politely post a story, but that was seriously frustrating.

You know I was sympathizing, not critisizing, right? Just making sure, I feel like I’m expressing myself poorly this week.

Yes, I was going to add something about being glad that someone could sympathize but didn’t. Should have. ;)

Oh the craziness of the internets.

Cord: was the “killing is killing” bit just poorly chosen words? Were you clarifying that the definition of the word is what it is regardless of the sentiment behind the action? I’m just wondering because if that’s the case, I’m pedantic and can agree with that, but if you are arguing that every act that brings about death is equal in its social and emotional ramifications, I have to disagree. However, in the Martinez case I don’t think that’s what’s actually being argued.

I think it comes down to the fact that our culture considers it cruel and inhumane and his doesn’t, and as an “american role model” (whether rightfully or not) his actions hold some sway with the more impressionable minds in this country. As for the animal rights groups, even being quiet on the subject could be construed as tacit approval, and they can’t afford that. Not ever, really, but especially in the Humane Society’s case where they’re in the midst of an international humane-education campaign regarding this particular sport.

I suppose what I’m saying is, you can condemn a practice without condemning a culture. Our culture has overcome myriad cruel and sadistic practices and remains largely in tact (make of that what you will) and, it would be difficult to argue that it has been diminished by the absence of any of them.

Oh snap! Cord got told! Lily, I am commencing a statue made in your image in gold. Hope you like it!

My beef (so to speak) is not with PETA, they have their agenda and it is animals, not humans. There are plenty of human rights organizations in the world PETA is not responsible for monitoring beyond their “territory”. My comment is really directed at public opinion; Americans being horrified at cockfighting (not a cultural practice I support but I also don’t support high heels, invading other countries for our own financial gain or our cultural obsession with pre-pubescent thinness for women which is also a form of violence against women). My point is that Americans are so wrapped up in pointing out violence in other cultures that we overlook our own violent culture and particularly when it benefits us. Our sugar costs less than 2 dollars a pound, we treat Haitians poorly in their country and ours. There is no cache or financial gain for us to oppose their treatment in DR but we get “humanitarian” brownie points for taking a stand against cockfighting. Look at how we treat greyhounds, thoroughbreds or the animals we factory farm for consumption. We have plenty of human and animal rights violations at home, too.

I agree with Cord, his point is the hypocrisy of indignation when we have equal or more violent domestic practices and draw our own illogical rhetorical distinctions between “okay” and “wrong” killing of animals. Michael Pollen makes several convincing points about this in An Omnivore’s Dilemma, particularly the chapter “An Animal’s Place”.

thebeachedwhale: Yes, but that argument is contingent upon the supposition that everyone who condemns cockfighting is a hypocrite.

Blah, OK, I shouldn’t have let this get a foot hold in my head. It also assumes that Americans know about these issues and chose to ignore them because cockfighting is so much more upsetting to them for some reason. If you polled everyone in the US aged 12 or older, how many do you think would have any idea where their sugar comes from, how thoroughbreds and greyhounds are treated, or the conditions in factory farms? This is not to suggest that ignorance excuses all bad behavior, I’m merely suggesting it isn’t hypocritically tolerating something if you have no idea that that something exists.

Rather than sit back and vilify people for what you perceive as hypocrisy, get off your butt and educate people, help them make more informed choices and decisions…or stay in your chair and be a hypocrite. ;)

“choose”

I think that’s Cord’s point.

Your last point is also in my critique, TMZ, Human Society and PETA are all over this because its a celebrity involved. Most human rights violations or the poor treatment of animals for our enjoyment or consumption isn’t sexy.

Lily: what makes you think I am not doing these things along ALL of these issues?

There is information out there and organizations working towards educating and eradicating each of these issues and more. Who below the age of 10 thinks their burger comes from the cow they see in a field? Who hasn’t seen PETA’s ads about fur and meat? Who can’t use the Internet to search for any of these issues? Intellectual laziness is not an excuse for ignorance, inaction or complacency.

thebeachedwhale: Where do you live? (I don’t mean that in a snotty way, I’m just wondering) 50% of the households in the US don’t have internet access, and in all but larger cities it’s fairly likely that the majority of people haven’t seen a PETA poster, and I am betting a far larger percent than you’d think beef comes from the cows they see in a field. You’re assuming that all people are raised inside a culture or environment that values intelligence, encourages people to think for themselves, and provides them with opportunities and access to the tools with which to educate themselves, and that they also have the capacity to do so. Having been all over the US, I can honestly say there are many, many places in the US where this is not true, especially in rural and poor areas.

As for assuming you aren’t doing anything, I’m not. I was making a point and being a smartass, hence the “;)”

Regarding the Humane Society, of course they will jump on something celebrity related. They rely on donations and need the free advertising. That being said, they don’t ignore other issues. They have campaigns or programs related to all the animal issues you’ve mentioned. I volunteer my time to them for this very reason. While this probably makes me biased, I can honestly say that true to my nature I researched things to death before I decided to give them my time. Anyway, I chose them because they matched my values and they run the Rural Area Veterinary Services (RAVS). RAVS goes to the poorest communities all over the US (and some overseas locations) and provides free veterinary care for pets and horses, and tries to educate as much as possible along the way. You’d be surprised what we’re up against.

Volunteering for them has done a couple of things for me. For one, it helped me purge some ghosts. When I first decided to volunteer I had quit a job in equine medicine, and by equine I mean specifically the thoroughbred industry, because I was sickened to find I was expected to treat patients like a commodity and I was asked to do things I found unethical, like put down an otherwise healthy foal because he had a minor cleft palate and the breeding contract was for a viable foal, and this foal, even with surgery to correct the palate, wouldn’t be a viable race horse. It still makes me angry to think about it (OK maybe the ghosts aren’t all gone).

But more importantly it showed me Appalachia in all its glory. I’ve seen poverty in Appalachia that rivaled any “3rd World” country I’ve visited, and because of that I have begun to develop an initiative to help the rural poor. I have to say, though, that until I saw it I didn’t know it existed, and I’m not intellectually lazy. Most of the people that volunteer are well educated, community minded people, and I can’t think of one person that wasn’t taken aback by the levels of rural poverty in this country and didn’t feel compelled to help do something about it.

It’s easy to judge groups, and I can see where it helps make a point, but at the same time it negates the fact that there are a lot of individuals out there doing a lot of good in many directions, and who are compassionate across the board, and that even more who would be glad to help out if you respectfully educated them about a subject. Then there are, of course assholes, and there always will be. We just have to work to outnumber them. :)

Yeah, I’ve totally lost my direction, but hopefully you understand my point. :)

Whoah, no wonder my train of thought derailed. Sorry for the essay.

Jujubees: It’s arbitrary that you think eating meat (when you have plenty of vegan alternatives around you) is different from, say, owning a leather purse.
Both are done for pleasure (tastes good, looks good). Of course, this depends on one’s social station and the resources they have around them.
Lisa#1: “All I am saying is, why did my DNA give me fangs if I am not supposed to eat meat?”

Swedish scientist Karl von Linne said, “Man’s structure, external and internal, compared with that of the other animals, shows that fruit and succulent vegetables constitute his natural food.”
We actually have no sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars for grinding. (Meat-eaters have sharp front teeth for tearing, with no flat molar teeth for grinding.) And even if we did have fangs, humans also have the ability to be altruistic and live healthily (often times, more so!) on a meat-free diet. Not sparing animals for food minimizes pain more than us eating animals maximizes pleasure. Shouldn’t overall happiness be our optimum goal?

*Not killing (not “not sparing”)
Cord: Although I agree with the majority of your post, I don’t understand the comparison to human combat sports. People choose to enter the ring and fight. The chickens didn’t seem like they gave their consent. And people die playing many sports, not just while sparring. It’s the physical challenge people are after. And a physical challenge may end destructively. That’s because, well, it’s challenging.

COCK FIGHT Is an AMERICAN TRADITION as well. HAVE YOU EVER BEEN TO TEXAS? OKLAHOMA, OR ARIZONA????

Lily, the work within Appalachia sounds awesome. People always make fun of places like West Virginia and other states within Appalachian country without ever really knowing that without those places, many of us wouldn’t be here today. Much of the technology in our country today wouldn’t have been possible either. One of the things I’ve always wanted to do is to backpack the entire Appalachian trail.

Vegans that say “humans are not engineered to consume meat” come off as holier than thou to me and have a sense of self-imposed ethical supremacy that just bugs me to death.

It’s one thing to not eat meat for your own personal reasons, but to try and come across as being better than everyone because you eat tofu doesn’t make you a better person, it’s just makes you a gasier person.