Darn it, Cord, she's just like the other soccer moms, dontcha know.

Yeesh. Is anyone else as hungover as I am today?

The wink was a bit much. But, when you can't tell your opponent how your running mate's plans differ from that of the current administration's abominable policies on Iraq, Pakistan, Israel, Afghanistan or the economy, what else can you do?

I was gulping back the Jameson..

But I don't think this will make too much of a difference in the long run. Sure she exceeded expectations but the bar was painted on the floor for her, as one journalist put it.

Any republican with half a brain (and there are a fair few) would see that her comprehension of her talking points was a millimetre deep. Some people, prior to this debate, have said that by not losing, Palin would win. However, as Times columnist Daniel Finkenstein said, "By not winning Sarah Palin lost" and I agree. McCain needed to pull out a game-changer and Palin failed on that front and so the polls will probably continue as they have been: rising or holding steadily in Obama's favour.

One word (said several times): "nuquler"

If you can't even pronounce it, how can you protect us from it?

well, Malissa, you can act folksy and divert the actual question asked to something YOU want to talk about.

and then be reminded by the moderator at the end of your spiel what the question/topic actually WAS. And still not answer it effectively.

I was glad to see Biden call her out on lies she repeated and pointed out, when Palin would refer to how Obama voted on a bill, that McCain had voted the same way.

@Gabi…

I agree with you that she didn't seem to have a deep knowledge of the talking points she was given.

she seemed sort of uncomfortable speaking on those topics, like a student who was handed a speech, has to BS his way thru it, hoping that no one would ask him questions on what he said.

And Rainey, I noticed that right away…Biden pronounced it correctly; she didn't.

To be fair, they both fudged their facts on the issues. But I felt a little sorry for Biden when he was reduced to laughter and open-mouth staring at some points. He did mostly hold himself together though.

Biden has wonderful teeth.

When Biden got emotional I almost lost it. And when Palin said something like 'your wife has her reward in heaven' I just didn't know what to think.

Also, is she the first one to wink during a debate? I think so.

I wish that he could have taken her to task on the specifics of what she was reciting. Thrown her a curveball, surprised her with an unexpected (but not obscure) aspect of the policies or bills that were supported or voted against by the candidates. But the debate format the GOP lobbied for precluded that, which makes me furious. All we got from Palin was a 90 min. McCain infomercial. There was no actual debate and anyone who pretends like there was needs to look harder at what she was saying.

I'll say this much though, she has an admirable memory. But how much of it she actually understood is the issue…

She did exceed expectations - I'm glad I wasn't the only one surprised she doesn't seem to all-out hate the gay community. She finally came off like an adult.

But she didn't seem more likeable than Biden, even if he did throw in one or two guffaws at her.

Biden's emotion was more sincere than any of that hockey mom folksy pandering bullshit from Palin. Her 'I'm just like you, slack-jawed yokels' rhetoric infuriates me and that's what pisses me off more than anything about US elections. I know people have been saying this ad infinitum (especially on mollygood) but why the fuck do people need a candidate who is a slightly-higher functioning carbon copy of themselves? Or whine that anyone with a modicum of intelligence and education is "elitist"? Fuck you, you high school-educated empty-headed idiots and your propensity to vote for politicians like Palin. Look how well it worked out for us these past 8 years.

This is a bit stronger than anything I've posted on mollygood but I'm just infuriated. Not by a fear that Obama will lose but by anyone supporting Palin because she reminds them of themselves.

I was half-way looking forward to to a major blunder to laugh about but what can you do? Also, I believe Palin and Biden have the exact same views on GAY MARRIAGE and ABORTION (except for if abortion is a state or federal thing to regulate) as do their Presidential running mates. But, no matter how many times I tell people this (who are set on voting Republican) they have some crappy excuse as to why Obama is Satan. I think a lot of people must want to vote Republican for self-interest (like taxes, etc.) rather than to preserve the sanctity of our country and they use abortion and gay rights as a cover. So that pisses me off. Also, I refuse to believe Palin is an energy expert (as she called herself last night). I am much more qualified to have the title if we're just throwing it around, and I know I'm not really an expert! Just because she had a hand in saying what to do with money that was coming in as a result of oil companies being in her state, doesn't mean she is qualified to tell those companies what they can or can't do. YEA the east coast is going to tell you to not fuck up the west coast by drilling for oil off our shores. Why don't we start getting these companies with all of the technology they are hiding in their blankets to start to start making more energy efficient AND cost efficient means of transportation? Blows my mind. There were plenty of things to be angry about and I yelled at the TV a lot last night. I'm still a little drunk so I'm going to go eat.

verrrrrbose.

so much insult in one little word: ironic.

i can't help it that i'm fired up. maybe if she had been stupid last night i wouldn't have anything to say. but she tried to be a real contender and i guess that pisses me off more.

She totally lost me at the wink. It was a little to, awwwww shucks. Which makes me think of Bush. Then I have a little seizure and start punching things around me. I can't control it. Like Mary Hart's voice sending that woman into seizures.

At times listening to her I felt like she is nothing but a huge cartoon character trying to feed us an image she thinks will be most appealing to soccer/hockey moms.

She must not know any of the soccer moms I know. Also, what about the football moms? What about us? And the gymnastic, dance, ice skating moms? Do those votes not matter too? Or how about the moms who can't afford to put their children in any kind of sports? I guess that makes them less worthy than the other mothers with kids who play soccer.

It pisses me off as a mother to all those references. How about she just talk about the challenges mothers face as a whoe and stop being so damn patronizing.

I think this about sums it up:

Grr.. tried to use HTML.. let me try again:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com.....dc.jpg?v=0

I meant as a whole. But, why does she never refer to the whoe moms either? They deserve some love too.

gabi, you are so right.

I think that chart would work for many things. Like for instance, explaining those new shoes in the back of the closet I was trying to hide.

I mean, I was really hoping she would get up there, stammer something incoherent, start drooling and then get so nervous that she peed herself, but I suppose deep down I knew it would never happen. Don't try to take my dreams away from me.

has anyone seen the twitter on this, pretty funny

http://twitter.com/Slate

@ Evil Twin: I only drank for run-on sentences and "state of Alaska". As a result, it's taken me 20 minutes to write this comment.

I got to give it to her, she did exceed expectations. That said, it wasn't hard to do that. I think the quote about the bar being painted on the floor was about right.

My problem watching the debate was that I just wanted to reach in my TV and slap her. Her folksy talk was driving my up the wall. Most of the time I felt like I was watching a Wal Mart greeter from Wisconsin with her goshes and gollies.

Last night for me just proved that Palin is the female version of Bush. Bush was a master of not answering questions and going off on another subject until he's time was used up and that what she did. I wish the people moderating these would call them on that no matter who it is. If these people want to be our next leaders they should show us so respect and actually answer questions that provide information to help people get an idea of just how they will lead.

I think I read on Slate this morning that "Sarah Palin is for humanity what MSG is for food"…that made sense to me.

@ JuJu

Sarah Palin doesn't care about gymnastics moms.

::said in my best Kanye West voice::

I was wondering if she would pull her earlobe ala Carol Burnett.

I am still troubled that the only solution we can come up with is give money to the banks who supposedly got us in trouble. Bad bank, here's some money. Huh?

I also don't believe its 100% the banks' fault. There are a lot of stupid people out there who should have known that they couldn't afford the mortgage they signed up for, and there are a lot of people who thought they would be real estate tycoons by flipping houses. Are we bailing out these people too? No one knows.

I tried to count how many times she said "also" - it was a lot, too many to count actually.

Biden was hot stuff. Whispy hair and all.

Biden was hot stuff.

Palin shocked me and made me want to vomit all at the same time. I'm sorry, but I don't want someone 2nd in command if they're just about as smart as the alone guy all wasted at the end of a hole in the wall bar about to get in his rusty pick up truck with a confederate flag in his back window and a bumper sticker that says, "my kid beat up your honer student". Sorry for the run-on sentence but I was doing my best Palin imitation.

Wow, Gabi. But, I totally understand. I am completely bewildered and frustrated by people that continue to insist on Palin's abilities and likeability, despite her obvious failings. It's amazing really.

Caribou Barbie said "also" 46 times during the debate last night. The radio show I'm listening to did a count. While I forgot the number, she also said 'maverick' a lot.

Also, did anyone notice that she can't pronounce nuclear?

Caribou Barbie, 'new-que-lar' IS NOT A WORD.

Keebler - agreed, she reminded me of Bush with her repeated simple platitudes. She very little substance, there's no "there there." But my real question, is no one horrified by the prospect of BK judges getting to unilaterally lower the principal of home mortgages? This would be a DISASTER for anyone who may want home affordability in the near future - I could go on at length to discuss the economic, moral and legal hazards there, but I was hoping to see if anyone else was shocked.

Does anyone know what "Joe six pack" means? She says that a lot and I don't quite understand. Is she saying she gets the drunk vote?

pretty sure the powers that be have eased up on the pronunciation of nuclear.

i myself get bothered when people say comf-ter-ble.

"joe six-pack" is a term for "the average voter".

to palin supporters, this is interpreted as "you and me".

to me, it means some knucklehead who isn't informed on the issues and votes a certain way because a talking head told him to.

I'm Canadian, and watched the US debate last night, as much out of a rather snarky interest in seeing how quickly Palin would self-destruct, as an curiosity regarding what both of your VP candidates had to say about different issues.

Our five Canadian leadership candidates had their (English-language) debate last night, also, and at least during that debate,there was more than only one person speaking intelligently :-) After watching the US debate, all I can say is, "Go, Obama and Biden, go!"

The idea of Sarah Palin as VP (or even President) scares the crap out of me. She has the depth of a paper plate. Her seeming lack of understanding of so many key issues is stupefying. And why, oh, why, can she not pronounce the word "nuclear"? Aggghhhhh! And listening to that folksy schtick, I halfway expected to hear that the tractor pull was coming up next. Don't get me started about the wink.

On a more serious note - Gabi, your comments were exactly what I was thinking as I watched her. I am sure she is a bright woman with many good qualities, but that certainly does not make her an appropriate candidate for VP.

Ok, talking about her pronounciation MIGHT be nit picking a little.

My thing is: As VP (which I REALLY hope doesn't happen) she will be meeting with foreign heads of state who speak fluent english, their own language, and probably a couple others. So it would be nice if we had someone who could speak their one language as well as the foreign person they're dealing with. Our current prez-tard can barely speak english. Do we need another one like that?

I'm also frustrated with people in this country thinking it's ok for our VP to "be just like us". I don't get how that makes people feel all warm and fuzzy. And, how can a woman give her vote to the McCain / Palin ticket simply because Palin's a woman? That just boggles my mind. I would like to see a woman in office, too. It would be a great accomplishment, just not THIS woman.

Did anybody notice that while Caribou Barbie sounded confident, she had very little to say of substance? There were no details, no plans, just talking points.

Because she got her talking points off without messing up, the repugnantcans are going to call this a win for her. Way to hold your potential leaders to a higher standard GOP.

I agree with Stunner. I don't want the leader of the country to be just one of the guys. I want someone smarter than the average person to be in charge.

Of course having a president who's brain even registers on an EEG would be an improvement.

Sarah Palin came across to me like a cheerleader.

She basically just said:

"Go team GO"! And "Get out and VOTE on NOV. 4th"

And "John McCain, Rah Rah RAH!"

And she wants more power as a VP. Like Cheney.

Thanks Say What. If I were a politician I would go for the Mad Dog 20/20 vote.

While I can agree that she sounded confident, her confidence was verging on shouting. I felt like she was on edge the whole night and therefore seemed a little loud and angry.

Also, she was disprectful on Ifill, in that she didn't feel the need to answer her questions. Also, who the hell is the General McCleland in Afghanistan that she was talking about?

She exceeded expectation, sure. But she did that simply by not pissing herself on stage.

Obama/Biden '08

I'd be looking for the Glenfiddich vote cause it's more elitist.

I wouldn't say I support all the criticisms here, but I will say I almost barfed when she literally said I'm Proud To Be An American.

Was she trying to say Obama and Biden aren't proud? Or was she trying to connect with her hometown-style audience darn it there? Or did she just run out of thoughts and start using lyrics - like how boys quote Adam Sandler movies when they run out of funny original jokes.

I forgot that one sar!

That, to me, felt like more of that "uplifting cheerleader" speak. Also, though.
Bless her heart.

I feel like Palin is taking the cancelling of TRL very hard.
At least she didn't end her shout out with "WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" while a Lil Wayne video played in the background.

"Well Senator Biden I for one won't forget the men who died, who gave that right to me, and I proudly stand up…"

Give me a freakin' break - of course her answers were scripted and so were Joe Biden's. Why can't people objectively admit that these are politicians and they are trying to make a play for votes? Why did Biden feel the need to say that he knows what its like hear from a doctor that his child might not survive? Is that a pertinent factor in deciding who should be VP? The guy practically broke down in tears during the debate and you don't think he was trying to win votes?

of course he was trying to win votes…every candidate is.

the diff I saw was that Palin had ONLY her scripted answers. when she tried to speak off the cuff it sounded like she didn't know what she was talking about. even with the scripted answers, she didn't sound very confident in what she was saying. (like I said earlier…she sounded like a student who was handed a speech, has to BS his way thru it, hoping that no one would ask him questions on what he said.)

her answers were general, nonspecific ones. Also, it seemed if she didn't have a scripted answer, she diverted the question to one for which she DID have a scripted answer. And the whole "I'll answer the question how I want to" (NOT verbatim, of course) turned me off.

disk–that was a genuine human emotion. And he was saying that he understands how hard it is to be a single parent, and how hard it is to have to cope with this economy, or have children in Iraq that you worry about. He's been there. If you listened to what he said rather than mocking him for getting emotional, you'd understand that. And no, his answers weren't scripted. He's aware of the facts and doesn't need talking points ala Palin.

disk,
No. I've been under pressure before and couple that with lack of sleep and intense stress, you can become quite emotional. I believe Biden was actually moved, it might have been the weight of it all. I also think that to a certain extent he knew he needed to connect on a deeper level with "swing" voters. That doesn't mean his tears were crocodile though. While I'm on the topic "swing" voters piss me off. I can understand being indecisive but what exactly does it take to get you to vote one way or another? How can we be 30 days to the election and still have some who don't know?

Agreed maria! Unless it comes out that Obama killed Rupert, I know which way my vote is going. Well, depending on the circumstances, my vote still might not change…

disk,
Perhaps he was crying because his first wife and baby daughter were killed in the car accident that his 2 sons barely survived. Just a thought.
Oh. Here's a bit of trivia: Biden consistently ranks as the "poorest" or next to poorest Senator. He has a net worth of under $300,000.

To disk: In a perfect world, politicians wouldn't need to pander to the 'folksy' constituency. I disliked it as well when Biden brought up his middle class upbringing and lifestyle.

However, the difference between Biden and Palin's pandering is that his was cosmetic, it was a tiny fraction of his actual message. Palin's pandering WAS her message, there was little substance behind it (i.e. comprehension of the issues, policies, etc. beyond the memorization). In essence, that's her job, to pander to the conservative base but realistically, she's little more than a cheerleader for Jesus and the GOP. Which is one of the reasons I get quite angry when people (or she) claims she's a feminist. Far, far from it.

She exhibited last night that she can memorize talking points quite well but did not prove that she's anything more than an empty vessel into which her handlers can pour vapid phrases. If I see her ACTUALLY debate and illustrate a sincere and analytical command of the issues, I'll have much more respect for her and McCain.

To Disk @50, Joe Biden was prompted to share that story because Sarah Palin had just finished bringing up her family, and how SHE can relate to the heartland because she is a MOM who cares.

Obviously, so can he.

Her grasp of what the Vice President actually does astounded me. She thought the position was in the legislative branch…? Biden totally hosed her on his response to that.

Sorry, BBB and Gabi. I didn't refresh.

Biden's emotion was real. If you've watched other interviews with him, he often chokes up when speaking of his deceased wife and daughter. His emotion was real, unlike all that "folksy" b.s. we heard and saw from the other one.

No probs, queencrone, neither did I. =P

And I'm glad other people agree with me on one of my earlier points, I was afraid I might come across as a Paul Begala, Jack Cafferty, Bill Maher type, drawing the line even more thickly and unambiguously between the two parties. Everything just makes me so angry about the McCain campaign and I'm over here in Ireland where most people are already sick of the US election so this is where I get my rants out. :)

Yeah, her folksy shtick is getting old - aw shucks, I was pulled out of obscurity and gee whiz, this country is awesome! I sort of half expected her to just hold up a picture of Rupert to get more sympathy.

Also, dontcha know, that freedom is not passed down in the bloodstream, there. Also, you have to teach your kids about freedom, though. :-)

Oh, and I'll give Palin a pass on the winking issue. It appeared to me that she was simply trying the break the accidental Aqua-Net™ induced fusion created between her eyelashes on her upper left eyelid and her bangs. Aqua-Net™ is one of the strongest bonding substances in the universe. They use it for quick space shuttle repairs. True story. Look it up.

At least she didn't say "such as".

I know what Pedro would say, "I like her bangs." And Napoleon would reply, "Yeah. Me too."
Why didn't McCain choose Pedro as his running mate? Gosh, he has the shirts made up already!

Likeable? She's likeable?
I couldn't spend five minutes with that woman. I wanted to slap the hell out of her, and her doggone it dontcha knows.
Ugh…I will move…I swear to God.

67. You might want to think about Canada now. I have a feeling there is going to be a rush after the elections. I've already talked to the people that take care of visas.

this just in: Gov. Palin has admitted to aerially-hunting and gunning down Rupert the baby deer this morning. But, you know, she is within her second amendment rights people. so don't go nuke-u-ler on her.

The debate proved to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that Palin is a real person who has folksy charm, confidence and personality, but little or no substance. She avoided so many questions and needed so much help from her cheat sheets, it was an insult to American viewers. She lost my vote. My message to Palin is this: Give the lower 48 taxpayers back the money you stole from them for your “bridge to nowhere” mismanagement and misappropriation. We don’t need more any more Fannie & Freddies. Go home, please.

Am I in the minority on thinking "folksy" is excessively annoying and the opposite of charming? I hate dumbed-down phrases, mispronounced words and colloquialisms… especially from people who think they are qualified to run one of the most powerful nations in the world. Is that how she will address foreign leaders? "You all just have the funniest little way of pronoucin' those words there and you also dress like Jesus, which is aok in my book, which also is the Bible, so you all are also Christian like that over there, dontchaknow!" *wink wink*

While her performance was less bungled than I'd expected, she reaffirmed my suspicions:

Sarah Palin is all about FEELING, not ideas. She plays to those who FEEL she's right for the job, not because of what she's said, but how she says it. She's just like somebody's neighbor, that nice lady at the laundromat you met last week, or the school secretary. She's pleasant. Vague, but pleasant. And many people think that's enough to qualify her as Vice President of the United States — because she's "real folks".

Which begs the question others have asked: If you're seriously ill and need the best medical advice possible to save your life, would you trust somebody who's watched a few episodes of Grey's Anatomy?

If you're facing an audit before the IRS, would you seek advice from that guy at work who minored in accounting in 1983?

If you are facing criminal charges for an offense you didn't commit, would you hire an someone to represent you because they've read all of John Grisham's books?

it's the US Weekly brand of pandering: POLITICIANS!! THEY'RE JUST LIKE US!!!!!111<–